The Tarot Podcast with T. Susan Chang

Episode 48: What is the Tarot de Marseille? with Sherryl Smith

The Rider Waite Smith and Thoth tarot decks may be the most recognized decks in the English-speaking world. But it is the Tarot de Marseille, known in tarot circles as the TdM, that has the furthest intercontinental reach and the longest history. Even today, it is the deck most widely used in European countries.
This week, tarot historian and independent scholar Sherryl Smith takes us on a journey through the origins and idiosyncrasies of the TdM.  Next week, we’ll have a discussion of how to actually use the TdM! which intimidates many readers with its cryptic woodcut imagery and non-scenic pips.
Be sure to listen through to the end of the episode for a demonstration reading with the TdM! Bonus TdM readings can be found on our Patreon website (www.patreon.com/thetarotpodcast), and we will have another set of readings to go with next week’s episode. If you’d like to submit a question for a future reading on the Tarot Podcast, sign up as a paid member! (https://patreon.com/thetarotpodcast). You’ll find out when readings are happening on Patreon or Discord and be able to share your question then!
All images for this episode can be viewed on Patreon, or on the YouTube version of the show.
Sherryl Smith’s tarot journey began over 50 years ago when she saw David Palladini’s Aquarian deck in a bookstore and instantly recognized an important turning point in her life. She has been studying the history of tarot and reading with historic decks for 25 years.  Her website Tarot-Heritage.com tells the story of tarot’s 600-year history. The Cartomancy section of the website has everything you need to get started reading with historic decks like the Tarot de Marseille
Links for this episode:
Sherryl’s website: https://tarot-heritage.com
Purchase historic decks at Tarot Arts https://tarotarts.com/collections/tarot-decks-and-kits/realm_historic-decks?
Episode 20: What is the Rider Waite Smith Tarot? with Mary K. Greer https://youtu.be/qOcUbM9t8eo
Episode 21: What is the Thoth Tarot? with Lon Milo DuQuettehttps://youtu.be/njY_oyfgb7g
Video version of the episode: https://youtu.be/mpvDn7fNSc8
Sherryl’s TdM Resources:
Books
Yoav Ben Dov. The Marseille Tarot Revealed: A Complete Guide to Symbolism, Meanings and Methods. (Llewellyn, 2017) https://www.amazon.com/Marseille-Tarot-Revealed-Complete-Symbolism/dp/0738752282
Carrie Spider. Tarot de Marseille: Reading the Cards as They Were Used. Self-published 2026. https://www.amazon.com/Tarot-Marseille-Reading-Cards-They/dp/B0GBT7SYD4
Wayne Limberger. Pips, Courts and Trumps: A Simple Guide to the Tarot de Marseille. Ebook available at Lulu.com. https://www.lulu.com/shop/wayne-limberger/pips-courts-and-trumps-a-short-simple-guide-to-the-tarot-de-marseille/ebook/product-5mm5rp.html
 
Where to purchase decks in the US
US Games: https://www.usgamesinc.com/?target=search&mode=search&substring=marseille&including=all
CBD Tarot de Marseille. Produced by Yoav Ben Dov, author of the book listed above.
Tarot Arnoux & Amphoux 1801, produced by the French card maker Yves Reynaud listed below.
Tarot de Marseille Convos
Llewellyn.com:https://www.llewellyn.com/browse_category.php?start=0&sort_by=&product_category_id=232
Universal Tarot de Marseille
Tarot de Marseille
Tarot de Marseille Mini
Artisan Tarot https://artisantarot.com/
Unique and whimsical decks:
Marseille Cat Tarot
Squid Cake Marseille
The Rider-Marseille Tarot Deck
Where to purchase decks in Europe
https://tarot-de-marseille-heritage.com/
Yves Reynaud of Marseille makes facsimiles of historic Tarot de Marseille decks he finds in museums. The production quality and price are designed for the average card reader.
https://www.facebook.com/Marco.C.Benedetti.Tarot
Marco Benedetti of Rome has a Facebook page—no website. Handcrafted decks at reasonable prices. Pierre Madenié 1709 is a favorite.
 
 
Become a Tarot Podcast member! patreon.com/thetarotpodcast
Shop for Tarot Podcast MERCH! & cool stuff made by your host! etsy.com/shop/tarotista
Sign up for readings and explore books and classes!thetarotpodcast.com
Continue your tarot journey with The Living Tarot book and/or The Living Tarot online class (discount for class available if you purchase the book!)

Episode 47: An Artomancy Reading with Laetitia Barbier

In this week’s Tarot Podcast episode, we welcome back goth tarot queen Laetitia Barbier to boldly engage! in a special kind of divination devised by Laetitia herself: ARTOMANCY!.  Together, Laeti and I do an on-the-spot artomancy reading on a listener-submitted question. If the technique intrigues you, you can book your own custom artomancy reading with Laetitia at her website! (Links below).
 
For our bonus content this week, check out my final conversation with Laetitia , on the question of whether tarot art is inherently magical. You can check that out by becoming a paid Patreon member, thereby unlocking all our bonus content, the chance to submit a question when we have guest readings, and countless other perks! https://patreon.com/thetarotpodcast/membership.
 
French-born Laetitia Barbier is an independent scholar, as well as a professional tarot reader and teacher. She earned a Bachelor's Degree in Art History from La Sorbonne University Paris in 2009. Laetitia has worked with Morbid Anatomy from 2012 to 2024 as a programming director, head librarian, and occasional curator. Her book Tarot and Divination Cards: A Visual Archive was published in 2021 with a foreword by Rachel Pollack. Along with her friend Lou Benesch, she’s the co-creator of the Camena Tarot. As a writer and scholar, she has the privilege of collaborating with the iconic French maître-cartier Grimaud, notably on the exquisite re-release of their 1930s Tarot de Marseille and Belline Oracle.
Laetitia has lectured, taught and read cards for various cultural institutions, such as Greenwood Cemetery, Artyard,  Fotografiska NY, the College of Psychic Studies in London or the New York Public Library. She lives in Brooklyn, New York.
 
Book your own custom Artomancy session! https://www.laetitiacartomancy.com/tarot-sessions/p/artomancy-using-art-as-a-mantic-tool-special-reading-session
Explore Laetitia’s events, readings, and classes: https://laetitiacartomancy.com
Join Laetitia’s Patreon communityhttps://www.laetitiacartomancy.com/patreon
 
 
__________________________________________
Become a Tarot Podcast member! patreon.com/thetarotpodcast
Shop for Tarot Podcast MERCH! & cool stuff made by your host! etsy.com/shop/tarotista
Sign up for readings and explore books and classes!thetarotpodcast.com
Continue your tarot journey with The Living Tarot book and/or The Living Tarot online class (discount for class available if you purchase the book!)

Episode 46: Priming the Pump (the tarot technique you never knew you needed)

In this week’s Try This at Home! segment, host T. Susan shares a powerful technique for reliably getting answers from your cards. Learn it in 5 seconds, apply it in 5 minutes, and enjoy the benefits for the rest of your life as a tarot reader!
Give ‘priming the pump’ a try the next time you read for yourself or someone else—and let me know how it worked for you! Write to me on the Tarot Podcast Discord server or dm me on Patreon if you’re a Patreon member. Or, you can reach me through the contact form at thetarotpodcast.com..
Become a Tarot Podcast member! patreon.com/thetarotpodcast
Shop for Tarot Podcast MERCH! & cool stuff made by your host! etsy.com/shop/tarotista
Sign up for readings and explore books and classes!thetarotpodcast.com
Continue your tarot journey with The Living Tarot book and/or The Living Tarot online class (discount for class available if you purchase the book!)

Episode 45: Why are People Afraid of Tarot? with Barbara Moore

Not everyone, believe it or not, falls in love with the cards at first sight! In fact, many of us experience a light shudder, even a hint of fear! upon our first encounter with tarot. What’s up with that? What’s the reasoning behind tarot-phobia? My wise and witty editor, Barbara Moore, shares her thoughts on the subject in this week’s episode.
Barbara Moore (Saint Paul, MN) has been in love with tarot for over thirty-five years. She has shuffled her cards and taught tarot all over the world. Now she embraces her Hermit self by writing books and creating decks. Her Steampunk Tarot, Good Fortune Tarot, and Trick or Treat Tarot are among her favorites.
Links for this episode:
Barbara’s website: https://barbaramooretarot.weebly.com/
Barbara’s author page at Llewellyn: https://www.llewellyn.com/author.php?author_id=3396
…and just a few of Barbara’s many works:
The Good Fortune Tarot (2024): https://www.llewellyn.com/product.php?ean=9780738772639
The Steampunk Tarot (2012): https://www.llewellyn.com/product.php?ean=9780738726380
Tarot for Beginners (2010) https://www.llewellyn.com/product.php?ean=9780738719559
 _____________________________
  
Become a Tarot Podcast member! patreon.com/thetarotpodcast
Shop for Tarot Podcast MERCH! & cool stuff made by your host! etsy.com/shop/tarotista
Sign up for readings and explore books and classes!thetarotpodcast.com
Continue your tarot journey with The Living Tarot book and/or The Living Tarot online class (discount for class available if you purchase the book!)
 

Episode 44: Five Questions with Kat Black + the Golden Tarot

Multimedia artist Kat Black joins me to share the backstory of a tarot community favorite, the Golden Tarot (first published in 2003). Long before today’s indie deck culture existed, fans launched the Golden Tarot into print, making its blend of International Gothic style and readable scenic minors an instant favorite for readers and collectors alike.
As always, there’s a patron reading! using the deck, at the end of the episode. We also have a few more readings, offered as Patreon bonus content for the week.  If you’d like to submit a question for a reading on the Tarot Podcast, sign up as a paid member! (https://patreon.com/thetarotpodcast). You’ll find out when readings are happening on Patreon or Discord and be able to share your question then!
Kat Black has been an artist and performer for over twenty years using a wide variety of media. She exhibited as a painter before moving into digital art forms. Her main art forms are currently video projection, interactive installation and digital collage. Her first commercial tarot deck, Golden Tarot, was released in 2004 using early graphics software to collage together elements of European artwork from the International Gothic era.
Kat was born and currently resides in Australia, although she has also lived in the US and the UK. In collaboration with her partner Jasper Cook, she creates video projection and public art as VJzoo.
 
Links for this episode:
The Golden Tarot website: https://www.goldentarot.com
Purchase the Golden Tarot from U.S. Gameshttps://www.usgamesinc.com/golden_tarot.html
Purchase the Touchstone Tarot from U.S. Gameshttps://www.usgamesinc.com/touchstone-tarot.html
Kat’s YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@KatBlackTarot
Simone Martini’s Christ Discovered in the Temple, appearing in the Golden Tarot’s 4 of Cups: https://www.liverpoolmuseums.org.uk/artifact/christ-discovered-temple
Kat’s professional website: https://vjzoo.com
YouTube version of the episode (where you can see images of the cards): https://youtu.be/Na5yQh58sWo
_________________
Become a Tarot Podcast member! patreon.com/thetarotpodcast
Shop for Tarot Podcast MERCH! & cool stuff made by your host! etsy.com/shop/tarotista
Sign up for readings and explore books and classes!thetarotpodcast.com
Continue your tarot journey with The Living Tarot book and/or The Living Tarot online class (discount for class available if you purchase the book!)

Episode 43: The 9 of Wands in Real Life

Tarot IRL is back! in a slightly more streamlined format. (You can still read the full text of examples in the video version in YouTube, if you wish.)
In this episode, we examine how the gritty, resolute 9 of Wands shows up in the lives of ordinary folks. If it could speak, this card would say, What doesn’t kill me makes me stronger! Our wounded warrior, the Lord of Strength, has seen his share. Your stories showcase his resilience...and his scars.
When you draw the 9 of Wands, look out for the following themes:
Burnout
Recovery from illness
Long drives
Resilience/fixing things
Trees/Forests
Heat
Miscellaneous synchronistic phenomena!
For decan basics and examples, see episode 39 (Decan Basics) and 40 (Decan Deep Dive) with Mary Greer.
_______________________________________
✨ Take the Tarot IRL poll! Vote on which IRL cards – Wands courts or numeric Cups – should come after the 10 of Wands!: 
✨To share your stories about the 10 of Wands for the next Tarot in Real Life segment - please join as a Patreon supporter of the Tarot Podcast! You can also write in to the show at thetarotpodcast.com/about, using the contact form at the bottom of the page.
More resources:
36 Secrets: A Decanic Journey through the Minor Arcana of the Tarot (Amazon link if you must!)
Shop for cool stuff made by your host! 
Dreaming the Decans webinar (yours free with Soothsayer-level membership!)
Become a Tarot Podcast member!
Sign up for readings and explore books and classes! https://tsusanchang.com
Continue your tarot journey with The Living Tarot book and/or The Living Tarot online class (discount for class available if you purchase the book!)
😊 And...don't forget to like, rate, subscribe, and share!! 😊

Episode 42: Is It Intuition or Projection? with Mat Auryn

This week my psychic friend, the author Mat Auryn, returns to the show to talk about a perennially interesting topic for tarot readers, which is: the difference between intuition and projection. When you’re doing a reading for someone else, how do you know if what you’re interpreting is true, useful information, or just something from your own bag of tricks?
You might want to revisit Episode 26, where Mat and I talked about whether you need to be psychic to read tarot. And we also have some fantastic bonus content this week you’ll want to check out—the video from the last part of my conversation with Mat, where we discuss psychic hygiene and how to keep yourself clean and clear when you’re exposing yourself to other people’s psychic energies. That’s at https://patreon.com/thetarotpodcast.
One quick note: I apologize for my side of the audio. My software accessed the wrong mic when we were recording  and I’ve tried to clean it up some. But it’s not quite the same quality you’re used to. Mat, however, sounds great!
 
Mat Auryn is an influential author and teacher in occultism and witchcraft. His books Psychic Witch, Mastering Magick, and The Psychic Art of Tarot offer practical insights into psychic and magickal practices. He also co-authored Pisces Witch with Ivo Dominguez, Jr. Mat’s work draws from various spiritual and magickal traditions he’s studied and trained in, aiming to synthesize them in accessible and practical ways. Beyond writing, Mat worked for many years as a professional psychic and tarot reader in Salem, Massachusetts, as well as his own private practice. He is on the faculty at the Omega Institute in Rhinebeck, NY, and co-hosts THE CIRCLE IS podCAST with actress Rachel True. Residing in California’s Bay Area, he co-owns Datura Trading Co. and Modern Witch University. You can find out more information about Mat on his website at www.Auryn.com
 
Check out Episode 26: Do I Need to be Psychic to Read Tarot?
Read Mat’s best-selling Psychic Witch
Check out The Psychic Art of Tarot
THE CIRCLE IS podCAST with Mat Auryn & Rachel True
______________________________
Become a Tarot Podcast member! patreon.com/thetarotpodcast
Shop for Tarot Podcast MERCH! & cool stuff made by your host! etsy.com/shop/tarotista
Sign up for readings and explore books and classes!thetarotpodcast.com
Continue your tarot journey with The Living Tarot book and/or The Living Tarot online class (discount for class available if you purchase the book!)

Episode 41: How to do a Decan Walk

The grand finale! of our series on decans + tarot, just in time for Spring Equinox on March 20th. Here are my answers to ALL your burning questions: What is a decan walk? Why do we do them? And – most important of all: How do I start my own?
Includes loads of examples from current practitioners of the modern decan walk – including your host! Let me know how you’re walking this year! (Write me via the contact form at thetarotpodcast.com).
 
Must-have Decan Resources!
2026-27 decan ingress chart
Pick up the Tarot Podcast official Decan Notebook!
Join the Tarot Podcast as a Soothsayer-level patron for my “Dreaming the Decans” webinar and a free decan notebook on your 1-month anniversary!
Patreon bonus post on decanic dignity for paid Patreon members
36 Secrets: A Decanic Journey through the Minor Arcana of the Tarot(Amazon link if you must!)
Tarot Correspondences: Ancient Secrets for Everyday Readers 
Dreaming the Decans book (also in paperback)
Dreaming the Decans webinar (yours free with Soothsayer-level membership!)
End credits music: “Time Trades,” by Jeffrey Lewis

Episode 40: Decan Deep Dive, with Mary K. Greer

It’s week 2 of our three-week series on decans!  Mary Greer and I are back to explore the ins and outs of decanic influence on four specific cards: the 4 of Cups, the 5 of Wands, the 6 of Swords, and the 9 of Pentacles. Join us as we unpack the Lords of Luxury, Strife, Science, and Gain—revealing their astrological, Kabbalistic, elemental, and numerological layers.
This week, we also have a Patreon bonus video where Mary and I discuss decanic dignity! and how it stacks up in a few special cards. For access, you can sign up at patreon.com/thetarotpodcast.
If you’d like to look closer at the visuals and graphics we discuss in the episode, there are three ways to do that:
the episode page on Podbean, our podcast-hosting service
The episode page on Patreon
the video version on YouTube
Also: stay tuned for next week’s solo show, whose topic will be <drumroll>… How to Do a Decan Walk!
 
Mary K. Greer is an independent scholar, writer, teacher, and professional tarot consultant, known for her innovative teaching techniques. With over 56 years tarot experience, she is the author of 12 books on tarot and on magic, has a master’s degree in English literature, and taught tarot in colleges and universities for 12 years.
If you’d like to study with Mary in-person, you can register for her yearly Omega Institute workshops in July:
Tarot Magic: July 17-19, a weekend with Barbara Moore, Nancy Antenucci, Charles Harrington, and Mary. https://www.eomega.org/workshops/tarot-magic
Wisdom of the Tarot - a July 19-24 five-day intensive with Mary, deck creator Ellen Lorenzi-Prince, and Carolyn Cushing.  https://www.eomega.org/workshops/wisdom-of-the-tarot
Also relevant to this episode:
Pick up the Tarot Podcast Official Decan Notebook!
Join the Tarot Podcast as a Soothsayer-level patron for my “dreaming the Decans” webinar and a free decan notebook on your 1-month anniversary!
36 Secrets: A Decanic Journey through the Minor Arcana of the Tarot  (Amazon link if you must!)
Tarot for Your Self: A Workbook for the Inward Journey
Tarot Correspondences: Ancient Secrets for Everyday Readers 
4 Stories: An Elemental Approach to the Tarot (2025)(Amazon link if you must!)
Dreaming the Decans (2024)
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Become a Tarot Podcast member! patreon.com/thetarotpodcast
Shop for Tarot Podcast MERCH! & cool stuff made by your host! etsy.com/shop/tarotista
Find trusted tarot readers and explore books and classes!thetarotpodcast.com
Continue your tarot journey with The Living Tarot book and/or The Living Tarot online class  (discount for class available if you purchase the book!)
😊 And...don't forget to like, rate, subscribe, and share!! 😊

Episode 39: Decan Basics for Tarot Readers, with Mary K. Greer

This episode is the first of a three-part series on decans, as we count down to the spring equinox.  The legendary Mary K. Greer is in the house! for an overview conversation on the astrological structure of decans, and how they matter for tarot.   
In next week’s episode, Mary and I will look specifically at four cards and their relationship with the decans. The third episode in this series, right before the equinox, will be a solo show on decan walks: what they are, and my take on how to do one.
The graphics we refer to in this episode are included below, if you scroll past the show notes, and are also available on Patreon. If you prefer, you can also head on over to YouTube, for the fully illustrated visual version of the show.
Mary K. Greer is an independent scholar, writer, teacher, and professional tarot consultant, known for her innovative teaching techniques. With over 56 years tarot experience, she is the author of 12 books on tarot and on magic, has a master’s degree in English literature, and taught tarot in colleges and universities for 12 years.
Her 1984 book Tarot for Your Self revolutionized the practice of tarot, being the first book to both describe how to read for oneself, and use tarot as a self-help, personal development, and creativity tool. As an author and teacher she emphasizes breaking all the rules regarding methods of learning and using the tarot to find what truly works for you. As a tarot reader, she thinks of herself as a ‘midwife of the soul,’ favoring techniques that are interactive, transformational and empowering. 
If you’d like to study with Mary in-person, you can register for her yearly Omega Institute workshops in July:
• Tarot Magic: July 17-19, a weekend with Barbara Moore, Nancy Antenucci, Charles Harrington, and Mary Greer. https://www.eomega.org/workshops/tarot-magic• Wisdom of the Tarot - a July 19-24 five-day intensive with Mary Greer, deck creator Ellen Lorenzi-Prince, and Carolyn Cushing, who carries on the tarot teachings of Rachel Pollack. (link to come, or contact eomega.org for further info.)
Mentioned in this episode:
36 Secrets: A Decanic Journey through the Minor Arcana of the Tarot (Amazon link if you must!)
Tarot for Your Self: A Workbook for the Inward Journey
Tarot Correspondences: Ancient Secrets for Everyday Readers 
Fortune’s Wheelhouse esoteric tarot podcast with Mel Meleen and Susie Chang.
________________________________________
• Become a Tarot Podcast member! patreon.com/thetarotpodcast• Shop for Tarot Podcast MERCH! & cool stuff made by your host! etsy.com/shop/tarotista• Find trusted tarot readers and explore books and classes!thetarotpodcast.com• Continue your tarot journey with The Living Tarot book   and/or The Living Tarot online class (discount for class available if you purchase the book!)
😊 And...don't forget to like, rate, subscribe, and share!! 😊
You can view the graphics for this episode on Podbean, or on Patreon.