The Tarot Podcast with T. Susan Chang

Episode 51: Five Questions with M. M. Meleen + the Tabula Mundi Tarot

The tarot deck known as the Tabula Mundi is a modern tarot masterpiece, a memory palace, and a love song to esoteric tarot. Its creator, M. M. Meleen, is known for her work producing Thoth-inspired cards, as well as for co-hosting the Fortune’s Wheelhouse esoteric tarot podcast with me. In today’s show, we explore the interlocking astrological intricacies of the Tabula Mundi, and its origin story. And we have a close look at the Tabula Mundi Devil card, in all its muscular blue-skinned glory.
As always, there’s a patron reading, using the deck, at the end of the episode. We also have a few more readings, offered as Patreon bonus content for the week.  If you’d like to submit a question for a reading on the Tarot Podcast, sign up as a paid member! You’ll find out when readings are happening on Patreon or Discord and be able to share your question then!
M. M. Meleen is the artist and creative force behind four modern esoteric tarot decks: Tabula Mundi Tarot, Rosetta Tarot, Pharos Tarot, and the latest work of talismanic and decan magic, Telos Tarot of 777. She is the author of Book M: Liber Mundi, Book of Seshet, Spectrum Fari, and Scions of 777: Vol. I, Six-and Thirty Decans, and Vol. II, Forty-two Truths. She also co-hosted and co-created the Fortune's Wheelhouse tarot podcast, and co-authored Tarot Deciphered, both with T. Susan Chang. For info on past, present, and future works of love and will visit tabulamundi.com. The decks and the books can be found at www.tarotcart.com.
 
Links for this episode:
tarotcart.com for Mel’s books and decks and to subscribe to her newsletter.
tabulamundi.com for Mel’s blog.
patreon.com/fortuneswheelhouse for the Fortune’s Wheelhouse podcast
Tarot Deciphered: Decoding Esoteric Symbolism in Modern Tarot, by T. Susan Chang and M. M. Meleen
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Continue your tarot journey with The Living Tarot book and/or The Living Tarot online class (discount for class available if you purchase the book!)

Episode 50: The 10 of Wands in Real Life

Tarot IRL is back! with the final installment of our numeric minors in the Wands suit.
In this episode, we examine how the mighty—but exhausting!—10 of Wands shows up in the lives of ordinary folks. It could be called the Triumph of the Will, capable of channeling human ambition into extraordinary achievement and astounding brutality. The Lord of Oppression will demand everything you have, and more. What you make of that crushing pressure, however, is up to you.
When you draw the 10 of Wands, look out for the following themes:
Responsibilities
Grit
Trees/Sticks/Wood
Endings/Achievements
Maximum people/Maximum things
ADHD/AuDHD
Fascism
For decan basics and examples, see episode 39 (Decan Basics) and 40 (Decan Deep Dive) with Mary Greer:
✨To share your stories about the Page of Wands for the next Tarot in Real Life segment - please join as a Patreon supporter of the Tarot Podcast! You can also write in to the show at thetarotpodcast.com/about, using the contact form at the bottom of the page.
More resources:
36 Secrets: A Decanic Journey through the Minor Arcana of the Tarot (Amazon link if you must!)
Shop for cool stuff made by your host! 
Dreaming the Decans webinar (yours free with Soothsayer-level membership!)
Become a Tarot Podcast member!
Sign up for readings and explore books and classes! https://tsusanchang.com
Continue your tarot journey with The Living Tarot book and/or The Living Tarot online class (discount for class available if you purchase the book!)
😊 And...don't forget to like, rate, subscribe, and share!! 😊

Episode 49: How to Read the Tarot de Marseille, with Sherryl Smith

In Episode 48, the tarot historian and independent scholar Sherryl Smith gave us an introduction to the classic European deck known as the Tarot de Marseille, or TdM. In this episode, our focus is how to read with these historic cards—which many modern tarot readers find intimidating. Sherryl demystifies the ins and outs of the TdM, explaining why some readers find the deck downright liberating.
Be sure to listen through to the end of the episode for a demonstration reading with the TdM! Bonus TdM readings—and full graphics for the episode—can be found on our Patreon website (www.patreon.com/thetarotpodcast). If you’d like to submit a question for a future reading on the Tarot Podcast, sign up as a paid member! (https://patreon.com/thetarotpodcast). You’ll find out when readings are happening on Patreon or Discord and be able to share your question in advance.
Sherryl Smith’s tarot journey began over 50 years ago when she saw David Palladini’s Aquarian deck in a bookstore and instantly recognized an important turning point in her life. She has been studying the history of tarot and reading with historic decks for 25 years.  Her website Tarot-Heritage.com tells the story of tarot’s 600-year history. The Cartomancy section of the website has everything you need to get started reading with historic decks like the Tarot de Marseille
Links for this episode:
Sherryl’s website: https://tarot-heritage.com
Purchase historic decks at Tarot Arts https://tarotarts.com/collections/tarot-decks-and-kits/realm_historic-decks?
Episode 48: What is the Tarot de Marseille? with Sherryl Smith.
YouTube version of this episode: https://youtu.be/WxiI8mVQJkM
 
Sherryl’s TdM Resources:
Books
Yoav Ben Dov. The Marseille Tarot Revealed: A Complete Guide to Symbolism, Meanings and Methods. (Llewellyn, 2017) https://www.amazon.com/Marseille-Tarot-Revealed-Complete-Symbolism/dp/0738752282
Carrie Spider. Tarot de Marseille: Reading the Cards as They Were Used. Self-published 2026. https://www.amazon.com/Tarot-Marseille-Reading-Cards-They/dp/B0GBT7SYD4
Wayne Limberger. Pips, Courts and Trumps: A Simple Guide to the Tarot de Marseille. Ebook available at Lulu.com. https://www.lulu.com/shop/wayne-limberger/pips-courts-and-trumps-a-short-simple-guide-to-the-tarot-de-marseille/ebook/product-5mm5rp.html
 
Where to purchase decks in the US
US Games: https://www.usgamesinc.com/?target=search&mode=search&substring=marseille&including=all
CBD Tarot de Marseille. Produced by Yoav Ben Dov, author of the book listed above.
Tarot Arnoux & Amphoux 1801, produced by the French card maker Yves Reynaud listed below.
Tarot de Marseille Convos
Llewellyn.com:https://www.llewellyn.com/browse_category.php?start=0&sort_by=&product_category_id=232
Universal Tarot de Marseille
Tarot de Marseille
Tarot de Marseille Mini
Artisan Tarot https://artisantarot.com/
Unique and whimsical decks:
Marseille Cat Tarot
Squid Cake Marseille
The Rider-Marseille Tarot Deck
Where to purchase decks in Europe
https://tarot-de-marseille-heritage.com/Yves Reynaud of Marseille makes facsimiles of historic Tarot de Marseille decks he finds in museums. The production quality and price are designed for the average card reader.
https://www.facebook.com/Marco.C.Benedetti.TarotMarco Benedetti of Rome has a Facebook page—no website. Handcrafted decks at reasonable prices. Pierre Madenié 1709 is a favorite.
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Become a Tarot Podcast member! patreon.com/thetarotpodcast
Shop for Tarot Podcast MERCH! & cool stuff made by your host! etsy.com/shop/tarotista
Sign up for readings and explore books and classes!thetarotpodcast.com
Continue your tarot journey with The Living Tarot book and/or The Living Tarot online class (discount for class available if you purchase the book!)

Episode 48: What is the Tarot de Marseille? with Sherryl Smith

The Rider Waite Smith and Thoth tarot decks may be the most recognized decks in the English-speaking world. But it is the Tarot de Marseille, known in tarot circles as the TdM, that has the furthest intercontinental reach and the longest history. Even today, it is the deck most widely used in European countries.
This week, tarot historian and independent scholar Sherryl Smith takes us on a journey through the origins and idiosyncrasies of the TdM.  Next week, we’ll have a discussion of how to actually use the TdM! which intimidates many readers with its cryptic woodcut imagery and non-scenic pips.
Be sure to listen through to the end of the episode for a demonstration reading with the TdM! Bonus TdM readings can be found on our Patreon website (www.patreon.com/thetarotpodcast), and we will have another set of readings to go with next week’s episode. If you’d like to submit a question for a future reading on the Tarot Podcast, sign up as a paid member! (https://patreon.com/thetarotpodcast). You’ll find out when readings are happening on Patreon or Discord and be able to share your question then!
All images for this episode can be viewed on Patreon, or on the YouTube version of the show.
Sherryl Smith’s tarot journey began over 50 years ago when she saw David Palladini’s Aquarian deck in a bookstore and instantly recognized an important turning point in her life. She has been studying the history of tarot and reading with historic decks for 25 years.  Her website Tarot-Heritage.com tells the story of tarot’s 600-year history. The Cartomancy section of the website has everything you need to get started reading with historic decks like the Tarot de Marseille
Links for this episode:
Sherryl’s website: https://tarot-heritage.com
Purchase historic decks at Tarot Arts https://tarotarts.com/collections/tarot-decks-and-kits/realm_historic-decks?
Episode 20: What is the Rider Waite Smith Tarot? with Mary K. Greer https://youtu.be/qOcUbM9t8eo
Episode 21: What is the Thoth Tarot? with Lon Milo DuQuettehttps://youtu.be/njY_oyfgb7g
Video version of the episode: https://youtu.be/mpvDn7fNSc8
Sherryl’s TdM Resources:
Books
Yoav Ben Dov. The Marseille Tarot Revealed: A Complete Guide to Symbolism, Meanings and Methods. (Llewellyn, 2017) https://www.amazon.com/Marseille-Tarot-Revealed-Complete-Symbolism/dp/0738752282
Carrie Spider. Tarot de Marseille: Reading the Cards as They Were Used. Self-published 2026. https://www.amazon.com/Tarot-Marseille-Reading-Cards-They/dp/B0GBT7SYD4
Wayne Limberger. Pips, Courts and Trumps: A Simple Guide to the Tarot de Marseille. Ebook available at Lulu.com. https://www.lulu.com/shop/wayne-limberger/pips-courts-and-trumps-a-short-simple-guide-to-the-tarot-de-marseille/ebook/product-5mm5rp.html
 
Where to purchase decks in the US
US Games: https://www.usgamesinc.com/?target=search&mode=search&substring=marseille&including=all
CBD Tarot de Marseille. Produced by Yoav Ben Dov, author of the book listed above.
Tarot Arnoux & Amphoux 1801, produced by the French card maker Yves Reynaud listed below.
Tarot de Marseille Convos
Llewellyn.com:https://www.llewellyn.com/browse_category.php?start=0&sort_by=&product_category_id=232
Universal Tarot de Marseille
Tarot de Marseille
Tarot de Marseille Mini
Artisan Tarot https://artisantarot.com/
Unique and whimsical decks:
Marseille Cat Tarot
Squid Cake Marseille
The Rider-Marseille Tarot Deck
Where to purchase decks in Europe
https://tarot-de-marseille-heritage.com/
Yves Reynaud of Marseille makes facsimiles of historic Tarot de Marseille decks he finds in museums. The production quality and price are designed for the average card reader.
https://www.facebook.com/Marco.C.Benedetti.Tarot
Marco Benedetti of Rome has a Facebook page—no website. Handcrafted decks at reasonable prices. Pierre Madenié 1709 is a favorite.
 
 
Become a Tarot Podcast member! patreon.com/thetarotpodcast
Shop for Tarot Podcast MERCH! & cool stuff made by your host! etsy.com/shop/tarotista
Sign up for readings and explore books and classes!thetarotpodcast.com
Continue your tarot journey with The Living Tarot book and/or The Living Tarot online class (discount for class available if you purchase the book!)

Episode 47: An Artomancy Reading with Laetitia Barbier

In this week’s Tarot Podcast episode, we welcome back goth tarot queen Laetitia Barbier to boldly engage! in a special kind of divination devised by Laetitia herself: ARTOMANCY!.  Together, Laeti and I do an on-the-spot artomancy reading on a listener-submitted question. If the technique intrigues you, you can book your own custom artomancy reading with Laetitia at her website! (Links below).
 
For our bonus content this week, check out my final conversation with Laetitia , on the question of whether tarot art is inherently magical. You can check that out by becoming a paid Patreon member, thereby unlocking all our bonus content, the chance to submit a question when we have guest readings, and countless other perks! https://patreon.com/thetarotpodcast/membership.
 
French-born Laetitia Barbier is an independent scholar, as well as a professional tarot reader and teacher. She earned a Bachelor's Degree in Art History from La Sorbonne University Paris in 2009. Laetitia has worked with Morbid Anatomy from 2012 to 2024 as a programming director, head librarian, and occasional curator. Her book Tarot and Divination Cards: A Visual Archive was published in 2021 with a foreword by Rachel Pollack. Along with her friend Lou Benesch, she’s the co-creator of the Camena Tarot. As a writer and scholar, she has the privilege of collaborating with the iconic French maître-cartier Grimaud, notably on the exquisite re-release of their 1930s Tarot de Marseille and Belline Oracle.
Laetitia has lectured, taught and read cards for various cultural institutions, such as Greenwood Cemetery, Artyard,  Fotografiska NY, the College of Psychic Studies in London or the New York Public Library. She lives in Brooklyn, New York.
 
Book your own custom Artomancy session! https://www.laetitiacartomancy.com/tarot-sessions/p/artomancy-using-art-as-a-mantic-tool-special-reading-session
Explore Laetitia’s events, readings, and classes: https://laetitiacartomancy.com
Join Laetitia’s Patreon communityhttps://www.laetitiacartomancy.com/patreon
 
 
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Become a Tarot Podcast member! patreon.com/thetarotpodcast
Shop for Tarot Podcast MERCH! & cool stuff made by your host! etsy.com/shop/tarotista
Sign up for readings and explore books and classes!thetarotpodcast.com
Continue your tarot journey with The Living Tarot book and/or The Living Tarot online class (discount for class available if you purchase the book!)

Episode 46: Priming the Pump (the tarot technique you never knew you needed)

In this week’s Try This at Home! segment, host T. Susan shares a powerful technique for reliably getting answers from your cards. Learn it in 5 seconds, apply it in 5 minutes, and enjoy the benefits for the rest of your life as a tarot reader!
Give ‘priming the pump’ a try the next time you read for yourself or someone else—and let me know how it worked for you! Write to me on the Tarot Podcast Discord server or dm me on Patreon if you’re a Patreon member. Or, you can reach me through the contact form at thetarotpodcast.com..
Become a Tarot Podcast member! patreon.com/thetarotpodcast
Shop for Tarot Podcast MERCH! & cool stuff made by your host! etsy.com/shop/tarotista
Sign up for readings and explore books and classes!thetarotpodcast.com
Continue your tarot journey with The Living Tarot book and/or The Living Tarot online class (discount for class available if you purchase the book!)

Episode 45: Why are People Afraid of Tarot? with Barbara Moore

Not everyone, believe it or not, falls in love with the cards at first sight! In fact, many of us experience a light shudder, even a hint of fear! upon our first encounter with tarot. What’s up with that? What’s the reasoning behind tarot-phobia? My wise and witty editor, Barbara Moore, shares her thoughts on the subject in this week’s episode.
Barbara Moore (Saint Paul, MN) has been in love with tarot for over thirty-five years. She has shuffled her cards and taught tarot all over the world. Now she embraces her Hermit self by writing books and creating decks. Her Steampunk Tarot, Good Fortune Tarot, and Trick or Treat Tarot are among her favorites.
Links for this episode:
Barbara’s website: https://barbaramooretarot.weebly.com/
Barbara’s author page at Llewellyn: https://www.llewellyn.com/author.php?author_id=3396
…and just a few of Barbara’s many works:
The Good Fortune Tarot (2024): https://www.llewellyn.com/product.php?ean=9780738772639
The Steampunk Tarot (2012): https://www.llewellyn.com/product.php?ean=9780738726380
Tarot for Beginners (2010) https://www.llewellyn.com/product.php?ean=9780738719559
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Become a Tarot Podcast member! patreon.com/thetarotpodcast
Shop for Tarot Podcast MERCH! & cool stuff made by your host! etsy.com/shop/tarotista
Sign up for readings and explore books and classes!thetarotpodcast.com
Continue your tarot journey with The Living Tarot book and/or The Living Tarot online class (discount for class available if you purchase the book!)
 

Episode 44: Five Questions with Kat Black + the Golden Tarot

Multimedia artist Kat Black joins me to share the backstory of a tarot community favorite, the Golden Tarot (first published in 2003). Long before today’s indie deck culture existed, fans launched the Golden Tarot into print, making its blend of International Gothic style and readable scenic minors an instant favorite for readers and collectors alike.
As always, there’s a patron reading! using the deck, at the end of the episode. We also have a few more readings, offered as Patreon bonus content for the week.  If you’d like to submit a question for a reading on the Tarot Podcast, sign up as a paid member! (https://patreon.com/thetarotpodcast). You’ll find out when readings are happening on Patreon or Discord and be able to share your question then!
Kat Black has been an artist and performer for over twenty years using a wide variety of media. She exhibited as a painter before moving into digital art forms. Her main art forms are currently video projection, interactive installation and digital collage. Her first commercial tarot deck, Golden Tarot, was released in 2004 using early graphics software to collage together elements of European artwork from the International Gothic era.
Kat was born and currently resides in Australia, although she has also lived in the US and the UK. In collaboration with her partner Jasper Cook, she creates video projection and public art as VJzoo.
 
Links for this episode:
The Golden Tarot website: https://www.goldentarot.com
Purchase the Golden Tarot from U.S. Gameshttps://www.usgamesinc.com/golden_tarot.html
Purchase the Touchstone Tarot from U.S. Gameshttps://www.usgamesinc.com/touchstone-tarot.html
Kat’s YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@KatBlackTarot
Simone Martini’s Christ Discovered in the Temple, appearing in the Golden Tarot’s 4 of Cups: https://www.liverpoolmuseums.org.uk/artifact/christ-discovered-temple
Kat’s professional website: https://vjzoo.com
YouTube version of the episode (where you can see images of the cards): https://youtu.be/Na5yQh58sWo
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Become a Tarot Podcast member! patreon.com/thetarotpodcast
Shop for Tarot Podcast MERCH! & cool stuff made by your host! etsy.com/shop/tarotista
Sign up for readings and explore books and classes!thetarotpodcast.com
Continue your tarot journey with The Living Tarot book and/or The Living Tarot online class (discount for class available if you purchase the book!)

Episode 43: The 9 of Wands in Real Life

Tarot IRL is back! in a slightly more streamlined format. (You can still read the full text of examples in the video version in YouTube, if you wish.)
In this episode, we examine how the gritty, resolute 9 of Wands shows up in the lives of ordinary folks. If it could speak, this card would say, What doesn’t kill me makes me stronger! Our wounded warrior, the Lord of Strength, has seen his share. Your stories showcase his resilience...and his scars.
When you draw the 9 of Wands, look out for the following themes:
Burnout
Recovery from illness
Long drives
Resilience/fixing things
Trees/Forests
Heat
Miscellaneous synchronistic phenomena!
For decan basics and examples, see episode 39 (Decan Basics) and 40 (Decan Deep Dive) with Mary Greer.
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✨ Take the Tarot IRL poll! Vote on which IRL cards – Wands courts or numeric Cups – should come after the 10 of Wands!: 
✨To share your stories about the 10 of Wands for the next Tarot in Real Life segment - please join as a Patreon supporter of the Tarot Podcast! You can also write in to the show at thetarotpodcast.com/about, using the contact form at the bottom of the page.
More resources:
36 Secrets: A Decanic Journey through the Minor Arcana of the Tarot (Amazon link if you must!)
Shop for cool stuff made by your host! 
Dreaming the Decans webinar (yours free with Soothsayer-level membership!)
Become a Tarot Podcast member!
Sign up for readings and explore books and classes! https://tsusanchang.com
Continue your tarot journey with The Living Tarot book and/or The Living Tarot online class (discount for class available if you purchase the book!)
😊 And...don't forget to like, rate, subscribe, and share!! 😊

Episode 42: Is It Intuition or Projection? with Mat Auryn

This week my psychic friend, the author Mat Auryn, returns to the show to talk about a perennially interesting topic for tarot readers, which is: the difference between intuition and projection. When you’re doing a reading for someone else, how do you know if what you’re interpreting is true, useful information, or just something from your own bag of tricks?
You might want to revisit Episode 26, where Mat and I talked about whether you need to be psychic to read tarot. And we also have some fantastic bonus content this week you’ll want to check out—the video from the last part of my conversation with Mat, where we discuss psychic hygiene and how to keep yourself clean and clear when you’re exposing yourself to other people’s psychic energies. That’s at https://patreon.com/thetarotpodcast.
One quick note: I apologize for my side of the audio. My software accessed the wrong mic when we were recording  and I’ve tried to clean it up some. But it’s not quite the same quality you’re used to. Mat, however, sounds great!
 
Mat Auryn is an influential author and teacher in occultism and witchcraft. His books Psychic Witch, Mastering Magick, and The Psychic Art of Tarot offer practical insights into psychic and magickal practices. He also co-authored Pisces Witch with Ivo Dominguez, Jr. Mat’s work draws from various spiritual and magickal traditions he’s studied and trained in, aiming to synthesize them in accessible and practical ways. Beyond writing, Mat worked for many years as a professional psychic and tarot reader in Salem, Massachusetts, as well as his own private practice. He is on the faculty at the Omega Institute in Rhinebeck, NY, and co-hosts THE CIRCLE IS podCAST with actress Rachel True. Residing in California’s Bay Area, he co-owns Datura Trading Co. and Modern Witch University. You can find out more information about Mat on his website at www.Auryn.com
 
Check out Episode 26: Do I Need to be Psychic to Read Tarot?
Read Mat’s best-selling Psychic Witch
Check out The Psychic Art of Tarot
THE CIRCLE IS podCAST with Mat Auryn & Rachel True
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Become a Tarot Podcast member! patreon.com/thetarotpodcast
Shop for Tarot Podcast MERCH! & cool stuff made by your host! etsy.com/shop/tarotista
Sign up for readings and explore books and classes!thetarotpodcast.com
Continue your tarot journey with The Living Tarot book and/or The Living Tarot online class (discount for class available if you purchase the book!)